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Finally she talks about writing again!

posted by [personal profile] selkie at 08:54am on 29/12/2006
...I apologize to the people who weren't only here for the food.

So! Tell me your opinion about outlines. Should I try to use one to get where I'm going? Do you use them? Should I just keep everything up in my head?

The thing is, I'm notoriously patchy as regards productivity. And I want to get this novel finished. I'm way behind. If I try to write 'organically' -- I mean, write what I want to write, a scene here, a snippet there -- I end up with stuff that may very well all be breathtaking gems of... gemlike beauty, but it doesn't add itself up to a novel.

Going scene by scene is too slow. I'm very frustrated. But I'm afraid if I write an outline instead of keeping everything up in my head, I'll grow intimidated by the work and run away.

Comments? Suggestions?
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There are 20 comments on this entry. (Reply.)
 

(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] greygirlbeast.livejournal.com at 02:15pm on 29/12/2006
Should I just keep everything up in my head?

That's what I do, pretty much, but I am aware it doesn't work for everyone.
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posted by [identity profile] strange-selkie.livejournal.com at 02:42pm on 29/12/2006
I need more of a lash at my heels, I think. I'm too much of a plodder in general, and I have defeating flights of whatever the opposite of fancy is. [livejournal.com profile] sovay makes a very useful lash, but she's had a shitty year.
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sovay: (I Claudius)

(no subject)

posted by [personal profile] sovay at 06:02pm on 29/12/2006
sovay makes a very useful lash, but she's had a shitty year.

It also helps if you send me either fragments or updates, so I have an idea of the direction in which I should be lashing. Seriously, I'm not sure I've seen anything—even scene-snippets—from you since 2005.
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] strange-selkie.livejournal.com at 06:53pm on 29/12/2006
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA.
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sovay: (Default)

(no subject)

posted by [personal profile] sovay at 11:02pm on 29/12/2006
You need the Flash Girl's "A Meaningful Dialogue."
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] tropes.livejournal.com at 02:29pm on 29/12/2006
I'm having this exact same problem. I finally just printed the damn thing out and tried to outline what I had, but it's like. My brain doesn't work in outlines and I have trouble making decisions.

Sigh.
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] deadcities-icon.livejournal.com at 04:14pm on 29/12/2006
Sounds very familiar, and probably the best evidence for why I'm an unpublished novelist.

I've tried outlining, but I find it sucks the enthusiasm straight out of me. Apparently it isn't that way for everyone.
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batyatoon: (Default)

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posted by [personal profile] batyatoon at 04:36pm on 29/12/2006
I often find I need outlines.

They don't always help, though.
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gramarye1971: a lone figure in silhouette against a blaze of white light (Stat rosa pristina nomine)

(no subject)

posted by [personal profile] gramarye1971 at 04:38pm on 29/12/2006
For the only novel-length ficwork I've ever written, I wrote an outline-sketch listing the big plot points I had to include and approximately where I wanted them to end up in the course of the story. I didn't go any deeper than that on the outline -- as you say, it's easy to get intimidated by the size of an outline -- but at least it told me where I was going and what I absolutely had to mention. The rest of the writing was a lot like colouring inside the lines after that. ^_^
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misslucyjane: poetry by hafiz (Default)

(no subject)

posted by [personal profile] misslucyjane at 05:02pm on 29/12/2006
I used to use outlines but I found if I tried to follow them exactly it smothered any good tangeants that came up. So I use timelines instead, which event needs to happen to get where I want to be and that sort of thing. Of course, it does lead to a lot of "and then stuff happens here" but eventually I figure it out, since I know where I want to end.
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sovay: (Default)

(no subject)

posted by [personal profile] sovay at 06:00pm on 29/12/2006
Do you use them?

I can't use outlines: my brain seems to interpret them as fully told stories and the piece dies. But I also don't write stories in linear fashion; so I may have an opening scene and a next-to-last scene, which somewhat holds together the shape of the story while I'm writing my way between the two. Mostly I just keep things in my head. And lots of fragmentary lines.

I end up with stuff that may very well all be breathtaking gems of... gemlike beauty, but it doesn't add itself up to a novel.

What did you do for A Verse from Babylon? That held together fine.
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] strange-selkie.livejournal.com at 06:46pm on 29/12/2006
See, I hate outlines, they make things shrivel up, but I haven't been good at getting what's IN my head OUT of my head. And A Verse From Babylon is more thematic than linear, and I think that's how it ended up that I could finish it.
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sovay: (I Claudius)

(no subject)

posted by [personal profile] sovay at 11:00pm on 29/12/2006
but I haven't been good at getting what's IN my head OUT of my head.

What happens if you treat each chapter as a short story: a more manageable unit than a novel?
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posted by [identity profile] kraada.livejournal.com at 06:50pm on 29/12/2006
I actually tend to outline, as I tend to like structure and knowing where I'm going before I get there.

The only stories I've ever outlined and not fleshed out are currently on my laptop waiting for me to do that . . . and I do think I'll actually get around to it . . . really . . . :)

I say give it a try; if it works for you, great, if not, chuck it and try to forget about it . . .
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] strange-selkie.livejournal.com at 06:53pm on 29/12/2006
He lives!

Happy new year.
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] kraada.livejournal.com at 07:24pm on 29/12/2006
:P

Happy new year to you too . . . and as soon as my job situation is straightened out I'll make a nice substantive LJ post . . .

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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] strange-selkie.livejournal.com at 07:28pm on 29/12/2006
Oh, your job. Here I thought you were occupied with someone else...
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(no subject)

posted by [identity profile] kraada.livejournal.com at 08:03pm on 29/12/2006
That too, that too. A link to pictures should be in your inbox in 5 . . . 4. . .
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genarti: Knees-down view of woman on tiptoe next to bookshelves (dreamers)

(no subject)

posted by [personal profile] genarti at 07:22pm on 29/12/2006
Personally, I like outlines, although I don't always follow them strictly. And certainly I don't do them scene-by-scene; it's more a sketched STUFF HAPPENS HERE sort of thing, just a rough and vague thing to help me fit the pieces into the whole. It helps me visualize what I need to do, too -- "Oh, right, I should do something in between those bits to serve this purpose." Sometimes it's just a scrawl on a post-it or notebook done to gather my thoughts, or a banged-out sentence or paragraph at the beginning of a story full of cryptic shorthand.

Mind, I have no followthrough on long fiction in any case. So a lot of this is just what works best for me with RP or with stories I only get to partially done.
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florahart: (writing)

(no subject)

posted by [personal profile] florahart at 07:23pm on 29/12/2006
I get that overwhelmed thing with an outline, not due to volume but due to it making me stuck. Even if it's totally the story I wanted to tell, perfectly and exactly, once it's outlined, I get all suffocated by there being no room to change it. I am aware this is ridiculous, but I also could never outline term papers for the same reason.

However, in something long/big/complex, trying to keep it all in the brain is problematic as well.

The middle ground I have come to is to keep a list of "stuff to come" that is TOTALLY not in any order, just--well, I'm talking about fic-writing, so it's generally all in one file--at the end of the file there's a bunch of single lines and short bits of "and later I need to come back to X" and "somewhere there needs to be Y scene" and so on. I add to the list as I go along, and then every once in a while I scroll down to the list and delete anything that I've already remember to put in and think about whether I've come to (or passed) the point at which at of them should be, and add if so. In a fic of 10,000 words, I probably have like, 15 of these notes, so for a novel, I suppose it might make more sense to do this externally because there are probably hundreds of them. But for me, anyway, the big thing is that they are not in order or hierarchical or anything; they are just notes to me.

I have no idea if that system would work for anyone else, but it's the only way I've managed to combine the need for nonsuffocation with the need to not have to try to keep the whole thing in my brain all at once. ?
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